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Talk:Timeline
Unnamed topic #1 Here's a nice mod that will allow a more visual timeline --Tierrie 08:24, December 15, 2009 (UTC) Lots of information here and some of it touchy. I *think* the Chantry teaches that the First Blight happened 800 years ago, while the developers have said that it really happened 1,000+ years ago. I'm going to comb the database. Do you think the warning at the beginning is clear enough? Maria Caliban 22:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC) : From David Gaider "The only thing that one can say with any certainty is that around 800 TE (by the old Imperial reckoning, about -400 Ancient by the Chantry calendar... or about 1300 years ago, if you prefer) the First Blight began and that was the first appearance of darkspawn in Thedas. Prior to that, there are no records of any such creatures having been seen. The dwarves might dispute that date, but even they agree that prior to this point the Deep Roads were clear." : From Mary Kirby: "The first darkspawn were mages. It's been a couple thousand years since that occurred" ''Maria Caliban 23:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC) River Dane/Dragon Age In the Stolen Throne, the narative has Loghain looking out at the mountains moments before the battle of River Dane and seeing the rampaging dragon. I would assume, given the material on the DA:O site stating the high dragon was the first seen in years, that the battle of River Dane and the beginning of the Dragon Age happened at the same time. :We know from David Gaider that the battle of the River Dane occurred 8:99 Blessed, as the page says. This is just before the beginning of the Dragon Age. Loleil 23:29, November 1, 2009 (UTC) :: I'm curious. The codex says that each age lasts *exactly* one hundred years. This means that there must either be a "Year 0" or a "Year 100". This page talks about 1:1 Divine being the first year of the Divine Age, which would -- in keeping with the codex -- imply that the last year of the Divine Age was 1:100 Divine, as opposed to 1:99 Divine. So was there a 8:100 Blessed? I'm just wondering because I'm working out character ages based off ''The Calling, and being a year out would suck. 20:30, December 11, 2009 (UTC) 3:18 Towers needs a line break before it. Cailan's age? So according to the Prima Guide Cailan is nine at the time of the Calling, and yet in my book, Maric says Cailan is five and that Rowan has been dead for three years, not two. I have the Kindle version for the PC. This is from Chapter 4, locations 1,623 - 50 (I don't think it shows page numbers, unfortunately.) : "Don't you have a young son?" Fiona asked. : "Cailan. He is five years old, yes." : "Isn't he without a mother? Perhaps we hear it wrong in Orlais, but my understanding is that the Queen of Ferelden is dead." : ... : "She is," Maric admitted quietly. "Three years now." So is there a difference between editions, has there been an edit, or did Prima just get it wrong? -- 21:50, February 7, 2010 (UTC) I dunno about editions, but I've got the paperback of the Calling, and in mine Maric says Cailan is nine and Rowan's been dead for 2 years. The version of Calling that I have says that Cailan's age is 5 years old and Rowan has been dead for 3 years. Why is there such an inconsistency? It's almost infuriating for me! *Khorin 07:15, March 13, 2010 (UTC)]] On the Bioware forums, David Gaider has admitted the time line was messed up http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/1054532/1#1058487 because it was edited too quickly. Apparently they made a time line then changed it during the 5 years of development, some things were accidentally left. He stated Cailan is suppose to be 5 in 'The Calling'. Then agreed that this time line looked correct http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/1054532/1#1068000 : 9:00 - Start of the Dragon Age : 9:02 - Death of Meghren : 9:03 - Maric Crowned King (Age 24) : 9:05 - Cailan Born : 9:08 - Queen Rowan Dies : 9:10 - The Calling (Cailan age 5, Maric age 31) : 9:25 - Maric Dissapears (Age 46), Cailan takes throne (Age 20) : 9:30 - Dragon Age: Origins I think this should sufficiently resolve the questions about Cailan's birth. Could the Ages page be updated to reflect this? --iTofu (talk) 16:57, January 18, 2011 (UTC) :This has been corrected. --'D.' (talk ·''' ) 17:26, January 18, 2011 (UTC) Emperor Florian This information is clearly incorrect. There's no way he could have been the emperor who invaded Fereldan and still have been emperor when the Orlesians were kicked out of Fereldan. Can anyone shed any insight on this? RS89 08:21, May 20, 2010 (UTC) And also if you'll notice it says that Meghren was put in charge of Ferelden in 8:24 Blessed, yet in DA: The Stolen Throne(which took place between 8:97 and 8:99 Blessed), he is described as being very young...so something doesn't add up there... : You are correct. The problem is that this page has just lifted the entirety of the early, general history timeline in the Prima guide. Not only is this bad form for a wiki, which is not supposed to reproduce information word-for-word within its own articles, but it has also failed to take into account the specific Ferelden timeline that occurs later in the book. : I reproduce it here: ::'''Fereldan Timeline ::1200 TE (-2415 Ancient): The tribes of people known as the “Alamarri” cross the Frostback Mountains and settle in the lands that would become the country of Ferelden some 3,000 years later. What drives the Alamarri across the mountains is not known, but the oldest tribal legends mention evil forces belonging to the “Shadow Goddess,” a being whose proper name was never invoked by Alamarri scribes lest her gaze fall upon them. Some modern scholars suggest that the Alamarri likely fled a great natural disaster—a flood caused by a large earthquake appears the most likely cause, according to hints in the old tales, though there are several tribes with stories that directly contradict this theory and instead point toward some form of enemy invasion. Regardless, the Alamarri crossed the mountains from the west and spread quickly across the Fereldan valley. ::600 TE (-1815 Ancient): The Alamarri people living around what is today known as Lake Calenhad break away from their Alamarri cousins, becoming known as the Avvar. The two tribes war with each other for several centuries, with the Avvar eventually being pushed westward into the foothills of the Frostbacks. ::200 TE (-1415 Ancient): During this period, the Alamarri people living in the Korcari Wilds to the south are first referred to as the Chasind in the old tales, and they invade the lands to the north in a campaign of terror. According to the stories, the Chasind fight alongside “white shadows” and the creatures of the wilds for a lengthy period that is disagreed upon in the old tales. They actually conquer the Alamarri. The Alamarri rebel and slaughter the Chasind shamans responsible for summoning the shadows and drive the Chasind back into the Wilds. To this day, Fereldan folk carry a suspicion and hatred of the Chasind that stems from stories related to their brutal occupation of the valley (as well as later invasions, though none of those were as successful as this first). ::500 TE (-715 Ancient): Nearing the height of its power, the Tevinter Imperium begins crossing the Waking Sea and begins several campaigns to subjugate the barbarians in Ferelden. Three times the Imperium comes close to succeeding, but always the Alamarri unite with the Chasind and the Avvars and drive the Tevinter armies back. After each barbarian success, the Tevinter would regroup and try again after several decades. In the fourth and final advance into the valley, the Tevinters held the western half of the valley long enough to extend the Imperial Highway across the Waking Sea at the Eyes of Nocen and into Ferelden, eventually reaching as far south as the Korcari Wilds. The highway allows for quick deployment of troops and supplies from the north, and for a time it appears the Imperium will succeed in bringing Ferelden into the fold. Several fortresses are constructed to hold off barbarian retaliation, the most famous of these being Ostagar in the far south (built, it is believed, to watch for signs of Chasind movement in the Wilds, and it was apparently boasted that the ruin was so reinforced by magic that nothing could tear it down). The tales of how the barbarians defeated the Tevinter forces after suffering many defeats are varied, with each tribe claiming responsibility for the final victory. Regardless, certain truths are evident: The barbarian tribes united once again and faced Tevinters who were fighting among themselves to split up the spoils of their conquests, and one brilliant leader rose among the barbarians to defeat the undefeatable Ostagar. As it is told, that leader died in the battle, and since so many claimants exist as to his identity, he is commonly known only by a title: the Bane of Ostagar. ::650 TE (-565 Ancient): With Ostagar defeated, the entrenched position of the Imperium begins to collapse. By this year, the last of the Tevinter forces are forced to retreat back across the Waking Sea. Faced with the embarrassing prospect of a united barbarian invasion from across the Frostback Mountains, the magister governor of Ciriane (now Orlais) sues for peace and supplies the Alamarri with great riches and several artifacts of magical power. Fortunately for him, this immediately causes argument and squabbling among the tribes as to who should get what share, and the entire alliance falls apart. The barbarian invasion of Ciriane never materializes. ::800 TE (-415 Ancient): The First Blight begins. The Fereldan valley is largely unaffected, but the more civilized portions of the Tevinter Imperium are devastated. While the barbarian tribes argue over the possibility of an invasion to take advantage of the Imperium’s weakness, they cannot agree. ::860 TE (-355 Ancient): The Battle of Red Falls is fought, marking the turn of the tide against the Alamarri and their legendary leader, Luthias (known also as “Luthias the Dwarfson”). Tales of this time mark great struggles between the Alamarri and the mountain clans of the Avvars led by the warrior-queen Morrighan’nan. Luthias is the first of the barbarians to be taught the berserker battle style of the dwarves and is thought undefeatable. However, in the last of the great clashes between the Alamarri and the Avvars, he and Morrighan’nan slay each other. Luthias’s body is rumored to have been brought to Orzammar for interment, and the Order of the Ash Warriors begins in Luthias’s honor not long after his death. ::981 TE (-234 Ancient): Andraste is born a peasant commoner in the village of Luighdor (today part of the city known as Denerim), on the eastern coast of Ferelden. She is captured by Tevinter forces at a young age and becomes a slave. ::992 TE (-223 Ancient): Dumat, the first archdemon, is destroyed by the Grey Wardens at the Battle of the Silent Plains in southern Tevinter. The First Blight comes to an end, and the Tevinter Imperium is in ruins. ::1010 TE (-205 Ancient): Many versions of Andraste’s tale exists, and even in the Chant of Light little is explained of what happens to Andraste during her many years as a slave. The Chant says that she was visited by the Maker and that he charged her with a mission to bring his teachings to his children, and he would give them the opportunity to turn away from the false gods and from the rule of corruption and magic. Andraste’s following became widespread. Her most ardent supporter was her husband, the Alamarri teyrn known as Maferath. Maferath is also one of the strongest proponents of invading the Imperium while they are still weak, and over the course of a single decade (and with the strength of the Maker at his back, so the Chant goes), he unites the barbarian tribes under his rule and Andraste’s spiritual leadership. For the first time, the barbarians have a single cause beyond their own survival. ::1020 TE (-195 Ancient): Maferath collects the great barbarian horde, and with Andraste leading the way crosses the Waking Sea to invade the Imperium. Their initial successes are many, and they strike deep into the heart of the southern lands before they begin to meet heavy resistance. At this time, the Imperium is weak, but they are quick to gather what forces they have, not to mention the barbarians have never encountered the full power of the magisters before: The horde faces battles against demons and even the very elements as it begins to struggle. Luckily, Andraste’s word begins to spread among the Tevinter subjects, and the elven slave class joins the oppressed masses in rising up in rebellion to weaken the Tevinter from within. The southern Tevinter begins to collapse. ::1024 TE (-191 Ancient): Soon after Maferath’s victory at the Battle of Valarian Fields, a battle in which the empire’s greatest army was routed, it is said that the barbarian general became jealous of his wife’s growing popularity and influence, as well as her status as the betrothed of the Maker. Wanting to bring an end to hostilities and tighten his grip on his conquered territories, he secretly made a pact with the Archon of Tevinter. The Archon declared a truce, while Maferath allowed his wife to be captured by Imperial agents and subsequently publicly burned to death in front of a large crowd at the Proving Grounds in Minrathous. ::1035 TE (-180 Ancient): Maferath rules the southern Imperium for a decade until the Archon of Tevinter declares his conversion to Andraste’s beliefs and reveals Maferath’s betrayal. The barbarian hordes abandon Maferath and begin returning to Ferelden en masse, and the southern Imperium completes its collapse into anarchy. ::1050 TE (-165 Ancient): The Alamarri tribes begin a long series of internal wars as various powerful banns step up to attempt to replace Maferath, starting with Andral, the supposed son of Andraste. Andral manages to unite Ferelden briefly before it is proven that he is not Andraste’s son and the union falls apart. Several more “sons” of Andraste step forward, each fracturing the valley into bitter feuds. Andraste’s ashes are recovered from the Imperium by her disciples and interred at the Silver Temple in Highever; however, after several attempts by the sons to take them by force to lend credence to their claim, her ashes are secretly moved to an unknown location and are lost. ::1192 TE (-3 Ancient): Kordillus Drakon is crowned the emperor of Orlais. He begins his series of holy wars to unite the Free Marches under the Orlesian banner. ::1195 TE (-1 Ancient): Under Emperor Drakon’s influence, the Andrastian Chantry is officially formed. The many cults that followed Andraste’s teachings, which have spread throughout the Free Marches, flock to the Chantry in masses. ::1:5 Divine: With the awakening of Zazikel, the Second Blight begins. ::1:40 Divine: The legendary warrior Hafter arises and successfully leads the Alamarri tribes against the darkspawn horde that spills into the valley from the dwarven lands. Hafter is said to be the descendant of legendary Dane of the Werewolves and is the greatest warrior of his time. ::1:50 Divine: Even though the Alamarri are weakened by their colossal struggle with the darkspawn, Hafter defeats a combined invasion by the Avvars and Chasind, who hope to take advantage of the situation. Numerous wars are fought with both tribes, ultimately driving the Avvars deep into the Frostbacks and the Chasind back into the Wilds. The Alamarri become the dominant force in the valley. Never again will the other tribes encroach on Alamarri lands. For the Alamarri, Hafter’s ascension as the first teyrn marks a long period of peace. He ruled with an iron fist for over 30 years, fighting off several new advances by the darkspawn into Ferelden before finally disappearing. It is said that the aged Hafter took the Blade of Yusaris and his first son and sailed into the unknown east of the Amaranthine Ocean. He was not seen again. His wife, Teyrna Isulde, ruled in his stead and won a civil war of her own to retain Hafter’s legacy. ::1:95 Divine: The Second Blight ends with the Battle of Starkhaven. ::2:10 Glory: The grandson of Hafter, Teyrn Caedmon, seeks to raise himself above the other teyrns. He declares himself king of the Fereldan people and officially establishes the presence of the Andrastian Chantry in Denerim. A civil war erupts to oppose him, and while he has great success at first, his downfall occurs when he commits too much of his power toward the Exalted March of the Dales in the west. In the end, the great Battle of Valmorn Hills results in Caedmon’s death. Three more claimants to the title of king emerge, including Caedmon’s son, Talemal, but all suffer quick ends as the civil war consumes the land. No more attempts to claim the king’s title are made, though the various teyrns struggle for dominance during a long period known as the War of Crowns, named for the sudden rise of the various teyrns adorning themselves with royal crowns even if they did not call themselves kings. Centuries later, King Calenhad rounded up these crowns and destroyed them, though legend says some are still hidden away. ::2:20 Glory: Orlais conquers Halamshiral, ending the Exalted March of the Dales. ::3:0 Towers: Flemeth is born in the village of Highever. Betrayed by her husband, Bann Conobar, Flemeth was possessed by a powerful spirit. She became an abomination and fled into the Korcari Wilds. There she brooded and plotted for 100 years, uniting the Chasind tribes under her dominion. During this time, she stole men from the Alamarri tribes so she could beget many daughters. Her daughters were twisted, horrific creatures that could kill a man with fear. When she was ready, an army led by Flemeth’s daughters—the “Witches of the Wilds”—emerged from the swamps and struck against the Fereldan people. All seemed lost until the hero, Cormac, emerged. Cormac led an army of Alamarri men and Orzammar dwarves against Flemeth’s army. Many great battles resulted in the Chasind being destroyed and the witches burned, including Flemeth, though legend claims that she and her witches still exist to this day. ::3:10—3:25 Towers: Toth is awoken and the Third Blight begins. Cormac plays a major role as he journeys north and fights alongside the Marchers against the darkspawn hordes, dying in the final fight, the Battle of Hunter Fell. ::3:87 Towers: The Schism splits the Chantry in Tevinter, causing great resentment against magic throughout the southern lands. The Circle of Magi in Denerim is forced to abandon its tower within the city and occupies Kinloch Hold in the center of what is today known as Lake Calenhad. ::4:0 Black: The werewolves, always present in Fereldan lore, become an epidemic. Over the next century, they battle against humanity in the valley as they acquire the ability to assume human form and strike at Ferelden from within. Supposedly this ability was granted to the werewolves through deals with darker powers, just as the werewolves themselves were created through dealings with dark gods in the early tribal days. Regardless of how they acquired their ability, paranoia became rampant in every Fereldan city. Relative turned against relative as the humans turned on their own, accusations against innocent people becoming commonplace. The use of dogs as guards who could detect werewolves by their smell proves the difference in the end, turning the tide against the werewolves, but the war to drive them out is particularly bloody. Many tales are spawned of the battles that take place, especially the invasion of the streets of Gwaren, where over a quarter of the city is slaughtered in a single night. The werewolves are eventually decimated, though folklore still places them in many rural forests throughout the valley today. Occasionally, rumors of a werewolf in a village will grow out of hand and lead to many deaths before the truth is sorted out. Legends also claim that a race of half-shape-shifters called “ferals” descend from that time, living quietly among humanity or withdrawing deep into the wilds (depending on the legend). ::4:80 Black: The Orlesian Empire takes advantage of Ferelden’s disorganization and crosses the Frostback Mountains to invade for the first time. The campaign lasts for three years until the Fereldan teyrns once again unite to push the Orlesians back. The empire had hoped to take the port of Highever and therefore switch to supplying their forces by sea rather than by Gherlen’s Pass; however, the fortress of Redcliffe held out for longer than expected, and winter in the Frostbacks left many Orlesian forces unsupplied. By the spring of 4:84 Black, most Orlesian troops had pulled out or been captured. ::5:10 Exalted: The Grey Wardens sign treaties with the various teyrns of the land and enter Ferelden permanently, building the fortress at Soldier’s Peak as well as several small, remote outposts (including one in the Korcari Wilds) to watch for signs of darkspawn. ::5:12 Exalted: The Fourth Blight begins. ::5:42 Exalted: After long centuries of bitter warfare, the great warrior Calenhad finally defeats the other teyrns in a series of major engagements. He has the ash warriors on his side as well as the aid of the Circle of Magi, who craft him a suit of glittering white chain mail that was said to make the wearer all but impervious to harm. The appearance of the Silver Knight at the head of his troops, carrying his white-and-gold banner aloft, was said to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies, his victories a legend that has lived on to this day. He claims the title of king once again and is crowned by the Chantry in Denerim, and with his crowning, the nation of Ferelden is at last united. Some tribes of the Avvars remain in the mountains and Chasind in the Wilds, refusing to join in this new union, but technically even they are recognized as part of the king’s sovereign lands. King Calenhad brings Denerim onto the world stage, opening it up to trade. ::6:30 Steel: The First Qunari War begins. ::6:50 Steel: After having raided the lowlands for many years, the Avvars combine their forces under the great warlord Balak and sweep into the heart of the Fereldan valley in massive numbers. The Bannorn is put to the torch, and even though the Avvars are pushed back over the next two years, this period is one of the worst famines in Fereldan history. Memories of Avvarian savagery keep relations between the barbarians and the Fereldan kings bitter to this day. ::7:5 Storm: King Arland passes a law exiling the Grey Wardens from Ferelden. Though the official story is that the order was no longer worth tithing, rumors persist that the Grey Wardens commander, formerly a member of the royal family, took part in an unsuccessful coup to oust Arland, thus breaking the Wardens’ traditional neutrality in the matter. The fortress at Soldier’s Peak is breached, and the commander and her supporters are slain, while the rest of the Fereldan Wardens flee to Orlais. All other Grey Warden outposts in Ferelden are abandoned. Some are taken over by local lords while others, like the one in the Korcari Wilds, are simply left to fall to pieces. ::7:25—7:85 Storm: The New Exalted Marches are fought to reclaim lands conquered by the Qunari. ::8:24 Blessed: Urged on by “the Mad Emperor” Reville, Orlais makes its second attempt to invade Ferelden. This attempt is much more successful than the first, primarily because King Venedrin faces treachery from among the ranks of the nobility, with several powerful banns secretly supporting the Orlesians and working to sabotage the kingdom’s defense. Redcliffe falls, and at the Battle of Lothering, the Fereldan line completely collapses and King Venedrin is killed when he falls off his horse. Young King Brandel is unable to inspire enough confidence to unite the people underneath him, and for the next 20 years, the nation buckles under constant warfare. Eventually Denerim is sacked and the empire claims victory, though King Brandel gets away. The king and some of the teyrns become rebels, waging constant warfare against Orlesian occupiers from the wilds of the Brecilian Forest or the foothills of the Frostbacks. When King Brandel finally dies, Orlais crowns its “False King,” the infamous tyrant Meghren, while Brandel’s daughter, “the Rebel Queen” Moira, continues the battle. ::9:00 Dragon: Maric, the wildly popular son of the Rebel Queen, dethrones the latest Orlesian puppet king at the infamous Battle of the River Dane. He ascends to the throne of Ferelden after four years of battle with Orlesian forces, inspiring a nationwide revolution and finally driving the Orlesians out of Ferelden entirely. Maric’s campaigns were fought alongside a young commoner by the name of Loghain, who proves to be a military genius. Loghain is rewarded with the teyrnir of Gwaren and becomes something of a legend, epitomizing the Fereldan ideal of anything being attainable if one is skilled enough. Maric rebuilds the fortress of Denerim and readmits the Grey Wardens into Ferelden. King Maric’s rule is considered the beginning of a new golden age for Ferelden. ::9:20 Dragon: The young Empress Celene of Orlais makes her historic visit to Denerim, putting aside decades of strife and resentment to sign a peace treaty. This officially ends the long war between the two nations. ::9:25 Dragon: Death of King Maric. His only son, Cailan, assumes the throne and marries the daughter of Teyrn Loghain, Anora. ::9:30 Dragon: Modern day. : It should be noted that some sections of the supplement -- like that on Aeducan history -- are out-of-date (and there are places where the general timeline and the Ferelden timeline contradict one another), so the above isn't necessarily an accurate reflection of Ferelden's history as it currently stands. Even so, a recent DA2 timeline (the Gameinformer stuff) revealed that it was, indeed, the mad Emperor Reville who invaded Ferelden in 8:24 -- so I believe we can take that at face value. : And, as you can see, the 8:24 timeline entry actually spans across 8:24, to the sacking of Denerim in 8:44, to Brandel's death...which occured sometime after Maric's birth, since Maric has memories of him as a child. Uli Talk 14:20, November 15, 2010 (UTC) ::: Oh, and it's an IU timeline as well -- so obviously certainly elements are more "legendary" than "fact". But I imagine the more recent history is generally accurate. Uli Talk 14:22, November 15, 2010 (UTC) Awakening & Golems of Amgarrak Really should be added to the time line. I know Golems of Amgarrak still as far as I know has no set place in the timeline so that may be impossible. Wasn't it said that Awakening took place a year after the defeat of the Archedemon? --Revan's Exile (talk) 06:13, August 13, 2010 (UTC) 800 TE Is everything listed at that year sourced? It seems quite unbelievable that everything could have taken place within the span of a single year, just how many Magisters profaned the golden city? Did a Darkspawn horde large enough to sustain 200 years of conflict with the largest empire around simply pop into existence? Did that magical horde just stumble on Dumat the instant they stepped into the underground realm?Dr. Lobotomy (talk) 02:05, March 29, 2011 (UTC) Dawn of the Seeker spot removed. According to David Gaider, Dawn of the Seeker takes place a bit earlier than we expected based on Martel's statement of the events of Kirkwall. These two tweets indicate it was earlier than 9:37. http://twitter.com/davidgaider/status/239791401146138624 http://twitter.com/davidgaider/status/239792013447409666 Though now we don't really have a specific entry for it now. Barring continuity errors it could be as early as 9:34 considering Justinia V is the Divine.Tommyspa (talk) 23:01, August 26, 2012 (UTC) Year 0 ? I've noticed two problems concerning the fact that there is no year zero in the usual calendars. The first is that the conversions from FA to negative years in TE and Ancient are all off by one year, since the year before year one is year minus one. (So 6404 FA is -1 TE, and therefore 1 FA is -6404 TE, not -6405) The second problem is the Chantry Calendar with the Ages. It is mentioned that the Divine Age begins with 1:1 and ended 1:99, so it lasted only 99 years, not 100. While the timeline mentions the years 0 for the Black Age and Dragon Age, is it ever officially established wether Ages begin at year 1 or year 0? Because that would throw off the conversion between the Tevinter calendar and the Chantry calendar by up to 9 years. -- (talk) 11:42, November 12, 2012 (UTC) You raise an interesting point here. Unfortunately I can't find the source where it states that the Chantry was founded at 1:1 and that the first year of the Chantry Calendar. Because if that statement is wrong, then we can verify the fact that ages start at 0 and end at 99 and thus not lose any years in the process. 11:10, November 14, 2012 (UTC) Black & Exalted + Steel & Storm (simple question) To avoid confusion for the reader, I would like to point out that B&E refers to Black and Exalted while S&S refers to Steel and Storm. I have a question. Would it be ok if B&E as well as S&S could separated like the rest of the Ages in the content? I've noticed that while it states in the DA Table that they are listed as separate, the main content lists B&E as a single topic (if that's the right word to use, feel free to correct me if i am wrong) with the same being done to S&S. For example, if Divine Age is listed as being separate from Glory Age because they are different time periods, would it not be right that the same thing be done to B&E as well as S&S? I am making this suggestion because I believe it makes things easier for people to read. Also because since they are separate ages, that they should be separated. I don't mean to make a fuss of this, but since I wish to avoid more controversy like with Knight-Commanders, I've decided that it would be best to simply ask around here first before making any careless moves. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Sapphirewhirlwind (talk) 19:28, January 12, 2013 (UTC) Sapphirewhirlwind (talk) 19:28, January 12, 2013 (UTC) :I think the only reason those four ages were lumped into two-in-one sections was because Black and Steel ages each have just a single event documented in them, which some editor thought not to warrant separate sections. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 08:47, January 13, 2013 (UTC) ::I just had a quick look through the history and I suspect Koveras is right about the reasons behind it, that's just how it was written originally and no one has changed it. However, even though there may not be many recorded events, I wouldn't object to giving each Age its own heading for the reasons given above. 09:08, January 13, 2013 (UTC) :::Then would it be all right if I made the changes myself or should we wait for someone else to do it? Sapphirewhirlwind (talk) 07:00, February 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::Do it, if you still want to. If you screw up, we can always revert it. ;) --Koveras Alvane (talk) 09:12, February 10, 2013 (UTC) :::::Done, could you please check it out to make sure it's ok? Sapphirewhirlwind (talk) 12:39, February 12, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Looks good. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 16:58, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Timeline Given the timeline presentation of the information listed on Dragon Age: The World of Thedas, I think it will be useful for the page to present the information with the mod that Tierrie linked in the beginning of the talk page. What do you think about it? 04:55, April 23, 2013 (UTC) :Can you post a sample of how exactly TWoT timelines look like? --Koveras Alvane (talk) 17:57, April 23, 2013 (UTC) ::I have not worked in that mod yet so I don't know its mechanics and limitations but considering the information that we have about significant events in the Ages are disproportionally placed in the last century compared to the rest of the chart, I fear that this idea might not be feasible. I made this post hoping to be proven wrong or perhaps spark a different idea. 21:11, April 25, 2013 (UTC) Use of references I recommend to generally reference the entries in this page, because many informations are not from the game but the books and there are some discrepancies between those. Therefrom it can be very confusing if you don't know where the information comes from. I.e. Alistair's birthyear 9:10. Where does that information come from? It is not mentioned in the game, as far as I know. I read on Alistair's talk page, this was mentioned in "World of Thedas". So if that's true then imo it should be added as reference. Move & Split candidate + other stuff * I believe that the name "Ages" for that kind of a page is not appropriate. The Ages cover 840 years of the history of Thedas while the "pre-Ages" period spans 7600 years. Subsequently, for encyclopedic but also neutrality purposes I believe it is more appropriate this page to use the word "Timeline". * The World of Thedas book has a lot of new dates and information for various eras of Thedas history, which will substantially increase the current size of the page when that data is finally transferred into the wiki. For that reason, I am in favor of dividing the page based on the Ages. That is, for example, a separate page for the Steel Age to be created which will include all the historical events that happened as well as provide images which the current "cluttered" form prohibits to do so. I have some ideas more ideas here: ** In each page a clickable table (in the size of a column) on the left of the page will show the date (and on the right of the date, the text) which with a click this table to convert the numbers from Chantry calendar to Tevinter calendar and Elven calendar. ** A navigation template about the timeline and calendar to be created and used on each of the split pages. ** Obviously after the split nomination is passed, I'll make the right fixes on . * There are many entries which are unsourced. Along with the split and move of the page, I'd also like to suggest a full check up of the entries. * Each age spans 100 years with the exception of the Divine Age which lasted 99 years. The Chantry Calendar ends in -1 Ancient and starts again in 1:01. This clarification will be transferred into the main page too (after the nominations are over). The source is Dragon Age: Origins Traveler's Guide. * The EasyTimeline extension will also be used after the split as there will be enough room for a more visual approach of things. 17:42, June 7, 2013 (UTC) :I think this is a great idea. Almost any wiki I know includes a page titled "Timeline" or "Chronology", yet here it is known as "Ages", which, as I recall, was a bit hard to find when I first came to the wiki. I would suggest that the individual age subsections in the new timeline article contain brief overview of the key events in that age (one or two paragraphs, tops) for easier reference, with the actual year-by-year timeline provided by the linked article about a particular age. :I am not quite sure how your suggested calender conversion table(?) will function, though. Can you post a mockup of what you had in mind? I had some ideas about simplifying such conversions, too, but thought more along the lines of including the start and the end dates of every age in all three calenders within the navigation template (see prototype below). --Koveras Alvane (talk) 07:40, June 8, 2013 (UTC) I believe having a navigation template will surely help us understand the history of Thedas all together but in a much more organised way.Emilia Da'len (talk) 08:24, June 8, 2013 (UTC) Sure, I'm all up for it. But... what about all the links to this place, such as Ages#Dragon? Will we have to go back and manually change them all to, say, Divine Age? Henio0 (talk) 06:49, June 10, 2013 (UTC) :Yes, there will be some work that we'll have to do afterwards, Henio0. As for the table that Koveras provided, that's a style of presentation which is followed in wikipedia however not here. I think the navigation table should look more like this: Glory Age Towers Age Black Age Exalted Age Steel Age Storm Age Blessed Age Dragon Age }} : 09:31, June 10, 2013 (UTC) ::I see how the uniform presentation is important to this wiki, but that mockup is ugly as hell. Plus, it only links to the individual age articles, while my suggestion was based around the idea of a uniform navigational template for each age, to be included in historical articles, not just the ages articles. How about this: :: It still links to all the ages and can be included in their articles, but it also links to the individual events of the respective age. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 16:55, June 10, 2013 (UTC) :::I like the look of that, especially having the dates on the sidebars--makes it very easy to do a quick-check of what the date ranges are for that age.Kelcat (talk) 06:27, June 16, 2013 (UTC) I think we need to start splitting this page soon. I think strong support for the split is evident, so that (and the link migration) can be done right away. There is some support for my template proposal, so I can start working on them, too, unless someone objects to it in the meantime. There are still some technical issues with the EasyTimeline (see my talk page), so that'll have to be done at a later point. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 06:48, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :My only problem with it is the quick-view thing with the most important events. I don't know how that's going to work with ages that have lots of events, such as Dragon, Fereldan Rebellion, Fifth Blight, Fereldan Civil War, Darkspawn Civil War, Orlesian Civil War, Assault on Kirkwall, to name a few. But we shall see how it comes out in the wash, as the Polish saying goes. Henio0 (talk) 07:00, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :: Well, we'll have to see how that develops. If the list gets out of hand for Dragon Age in particular, we can still split it up later. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 09:23, June 22, 2013 (UTC) I think that we should split as soon as possible, keeping presentation as is. Navbox template can be selected later. 09:23, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :I have gone ahead with a straight split of the named Ages based on the discussion here. If anyone wishes to add back in brief description of the various Ages please do so. It wasn't clear if the discussion here was meant to include splitting off the history from before the Ages began. Let me know if that was the case. :As for the rename, I feel like the concept of Ages are a significant part of the series' lore and they warrant their own general page. As such, if there is felt to be a need for an overall timeline page, I feel it should be in addition to this page, instead of replacing it. 20:55, June 29, 2013 (UTC) I think that Pre-Tevinter and Pre-Ages sections should be split to a new page too ("Ancient Age"). World of Thedas uses "-YYYY Ancient" designation for everything before 1:1 Divine, and it is also used in the codex occasionally (e.g. Codex entry: The Founding of the Chantry). 21:01, June 29, 2013 (UTC) The rename candidate is still on, and there are several people who already voted. None argued against the concept of Ages being something insignificant. Afterall, it will be written in the Timeline page and since few stuff will remain there after the full split is done, it will be essentially a page on its own. However we can't ignore 7000 years of history before the Ages were introduced and have the page named as "Ages" instead. There is no neutrality in this. 21:35, June 29, 2013 (UTC) We can also describe the concept of Ages on the Calendar page, no need to have a standalone article. Regardless, I vote for the rename to Timeline too. 21:48, June 29, 2013 (UTC) ::The calendar was actually the first place I went looking when I was trying to find a simple explanation of the names of each of the ages. Having just a small table in the calendar with the names of the ages and the date ranges (and then pointers to pages with the more specific details about each age) sounds like a good idea. As far as renaming this page, if the Ancient stuff is kept in and not split out, I think renaming it to timeline is the most appropriate. Kelcat (talk) 23:09, June 29, 2013 (UTC) :::I, too, think the explanation about the tradition of ages should be placed in Calender article, while the new Timeline page should, indeed, include brief outlines of the most significant events of each age (including where their names come from). :::Also, I will start working on those navigation templates. In the meantime, I propose renaming Dragon Age (Ages) to Dragon Age (time period)... --Koveras Alvane (talk) 13:57, June 30, 2013 (UTC) Barring any dissenting opinions I will split off the pre-ages info to a new page. As the consensus is to rename the page, I will go ahead with the move. For now I will make Ages a disambiguation page though of course it can be tweaked as needed. I have no strong feeling about renaming the page about the Dragon Age. I merely used what was on the disambiguation page, so if you'd like to propose a rename please do so on the appropriate page. In addition, in the future when multiple proposals are being made can they please each receive their own section heading. It will make readability and discussion much easier. :I posted the move suggestion onto that page. :In the meantime, I've finished working on the Ages navigation templates; they are all listed under . I've tried picking at least one significant event or historical person from each age, but it's far from complete. Someone should go through Category:History and add all the exiting pages to the appropriate template and vice versa... --Koveras Alvane (talk) 19:44, June 30, 2013 (UTC) ::I'm not really fond of adding characters in the template. Only historical events, in my opinion. Also why are the Ages navigation templates added in non-Age related pages? 02:34, July 1, 2013 (UTC) :::I've only added them to the articles about historical events and historical characters that have been listed on the templates themselves. And as for historical characters, I see them as placeholders because we don't have articles on some important historical events yet, such as Maferath and Andraste's invasion of the Tevinter Imperium, the rise of Orlesian Empire, and the founding of the Fereldan Kingdom. Instead, these topics are only covered under the associated character articles (respectively: Andraste, Kordilius Drakon I, and King Calenhad), which is why they are linked from the template. Once we get proper historical event articles in place, the character links can be phased out. :::On a tangentially related topic, what are the official rules of year formatting in Chantry calender? Are single-digit year numbers padded with a zero (01, 02, 03), or is it just the zero itself that's padded? Do year spans within the same age have to be formatted like 1:30-40 (instead of 1:30-1:40), or is it just this wiki's shorthand convention? --Koveras Alvane (talk) 05:58, July 1, 2013 (UTC) Good folk of the dragonage.wikia.com! :I'm a recent fan of the Dragon Age universe and when I've encountered this website, which is the tremendous source of information, I was a little bit surprised. For that I would like to thank all those spending time and upgrading the site. :And I also have a couple of suggestion, which would help to make this dtabase more complete. :First, I noticed that some new information fom the new World of Thedas Volume 1 lorebook started to appear on the site and there are already some new articles and lot of addition to existing ones. But the lorebook's timeline section has a lot of new dates. Have you considered to upgrade the Ages section? :And second, judging by the amount of lorebook's new dates listed before 1 TE, would it be better not to use in Pre-Ages section Tevinter calendar? ::Just want to know your opinion. ::Thanks Prothy the Prothean (talk) 12:00, June 18, 2013 (UTC) Prothy the Prothean :This is what we're discussing here. :)Henio0 (talk) 12:15, June 18, 2013 (UTC) :For example, Tevinter calendar'r first date is the foundation of the Imperium. But what about all that events that happened before.And I tell you that there are some interesting additions in the World of Thedas. :Besides it looks like this page uses two different calendars (Tevinter and Chantry), although Chantry calendar is much more suited for dating the ancient events. It is simple and I think the developers and writes using only Chantry calendar is the proof to that. --Prothy the Prothean (talk) 12:28, June 18, 2013 (UTC) ::Feel free to add all the info you think is needed. But make sure you cite it. And yes, we are using two formats - one for pre-Chantry and one for post-Chantry. Henio0 (talk) 13:15, June 18, 2013 (UTC) Renaming page If you all discuss about spliting informations of this page, then I have an idea. Renaming the page "Ages" on "Timeline". How do you find it? Pros and cons are welcome. (talk) 13:59, June 18, 2013 (UTC) This is exaclty what we're discussing above. Henio0 (talk) 14:00, June 18, 2013 (UTC) I see nobody considered my suggestion. (talk) 08:25, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :Look a little closer.Henio0 (talk) 09:01, June 22, 2013 (UTC) Update of Ages section from Dragon Age World of Thedas : Ok, let's start. : As some of you have already noticed the Ages section has been updated with new dates from timeline of World of Thedas. There are whole new section of dates, and I'm grateful to all who helped me to get acknowledged with editing of pages (in which I should state I'm new) and to fix the mistakes. : I appeal to all members who have World of Thedas Volume 1 at their disposal. It has been several months since the release of book. I think it's time to start extensive updates for this section. It will suffice if anyone will add couple of dates from lorebook. Little by little all page will be updated with World of Thedas timeline. Join to our cause and help us to keep this database complete and full. --Prothy the Prothean (talk) 14:15, June 19, 2013 (UTC) ::That's what will come after the move and split nomination is over. ;-) Also please sign your messages. 12:56, June 19, 2013 (UTC) : Folks, for couple of days I added all new dates from the timeline section of World of Thedas to Ages page from the ancient time till the Steel Age. They should be completely consisted with lorebook. : The rest is up to you, guys. Rest assured, I'll keep updating this site with new info here and there, but not the Ages section (I think I'll make a little pause for now). : Dates from four ages still remained (Steel, Storm, Blessed and Dragon), but I'm sure someone will add the remaining ones. That's it for now) --Prothy the Prothean (talk) 17:10, June 21, 2013 (UTC) ::Thank you for your hard work, Prothy. I really appreciate it and I'm sure others here do, as well. :) --Koveras Alvane (talk) 06:54, June 22, 2013 (UTC) Let's just try to use more logic, and not just simply rewrite what is written in the book word by word. :) For example, there was no Ferelden before king Calenhad, and I believe the word "Ferelden" is used as conjecture in World of Thedas. You wouldn't say Julius Caesar had a palace in Italy, would you? :P Henio0 (talk) 07:16, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :The first priority is to get this data onto the wiki. Copy-editing it is the task for later editors... --Koveras Alvane (talk) 09:23, June 22, 2013 (UTC) ::But why not do it as we go? :P Seems like a waste of time for someone to copy text from the book so that someone else could make it not like in the book. :P IDeally, we should only use World of Thedas as a source, and then type in each entry ourselves, basing the entry on the one in the book, but not blatantly copy it. Henio0 (talk) 09:36, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :::I agree. But I am thankful for any constructive contribution, even if it does not meet the aspired formatting standard. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 10:49, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :: First of all I would like to mention, that my intention was to create a base for future editing not to write each and every entry for the each date. That would surely take far more time than expected. And I don't have that much free time. Still I managed to WASTE some of my TIME to compare the dates of lorebook and the ages section, and I added all new dates by BLATANTLY COPYing the explanation, so folks later could edit them and know what to write about. And by the way most of the timeline till the Steel Age is updated. :: And second, regarding much popular now Ferelden controversy, the name Ferelden is much older than Calenhad. Someone (not me) updated the Ferelden page with reference to World of Thedas that word Ferelden means "fertile valley" on Alamarri tongue. I've read the book and can assure you that this is true and the word Ferelden was used multiple times in the book before the foundation of the kingdom and was used in the form of the Ferelden Valley. So clearly the name is much older than kingdom, and Calenhad just united this land. ::So again if I have offended someone with my intention to quicken the process of updating, I'm very, very sorry. --Prothy the Prothean (talk) 13:00, June 22, 2013 (UTC) Timeline converter So I have been trying to make a template to automatically convert dates across all three calenders, and it's looking pretty good already, but I've stumbled across following issue: the current timeline converter calculates 1 TE = -1195 Ancient and 800 TE = -395 Ancient. But simple math shows that apparently, 799 years passed in the TE calender, while full 800 have passed according to the Chantry calender. That can't be right, can it? --Koveras Alvane (talk) 10:52, June 22, 2013 (UTC) :It's a mistake. -1195 Ancient = 0 TE (World of Thedas, p. 23). 11:07, June 22, 2013 (UTC) ::Thanks! --Koveras Alvane (talk) 12:36, June 22, 2013 (UTC) Chantry year formatting @Koveras Alvane The World of Thedas uses zero padding for 0th year only: 2:00, 2:1, 2:2, etc. As for the intervals, I don't think there is any convention. I prefer the shorter version A:BC–DE. (talk) 08:48, July 1, 2013 (UTC) :OK, thanks. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 18:08, July 1, 2013 (UTC) Interstitial year David Gaider just mentioned "the interstitial year between Ages (which technically belongs to neither)" on his Tumblr. Does anyone have an idea what he meant? Is that the year X:00 that we currently list as part of the new age? --Koveras Alvane (talk) 17:46, February 12, 2014 (UTC) :I have no idea... We already count the 0 year, eg. 9:0 Dragon, perhaps he means the 8:100? (which of course this convention is not used but to refer to the interstitial year). Meh if these people mess up with dates did they really have to do it more complicated? 18:00, February 12, 2014 (UTC) ::If there is an additional year between 8:99 and 9:00, then our timeline conversions(and those in WoT, apparently) are off by 1 to 8 years... --Koveras Alvane (talk) 18:57, February 12, 2014 (UTC) :::Also the estimation of the age of some characters (who were born before Dragon Age). 19:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)